As you know, because I asked about it in every episode, I love, love to hear from you. Sometimes you guys send thoughtful critiques about episodes, which I love. Sometimes you send ideas for episodes, which I love. Sometimes you send questions, which I also love.
And this week’s episode is our first official Israel Open Mic. We’ve taken some of the really interesting and inspired questions that I’ve received and this episode will be like 5 or so mini episodes all in one, addressing them.
Now, let’s be realistic. We’re not going to be able to do in 5 to 10 minutes what we would be able to do in a full episode, which is really break down the story and give the larger context and understand what the story is and why it’s important. But I still think that there’s a value in being able to really understand stories, at least in a small way, and then you know what, maybe one day, we’ll be able to do larger, fuller episodes about these topics.
So, a few weeks ago, we actually recruited questions from you listeners. And you guys actually really delivered and we got tons of questions, really great questions. In fact, you delivered so well that we actually aren’t going to be able to get through all the questions that you guys sent in. We’re only going to be able to get into a few of the questions in this episode. But don’t worry, we’re going to do more of these episodes, so please, whenever you’re listening to this, don’t be shy! You know what I’m going to say, send me an email: Noam@Jewishunpacked.com. Okay with that, let’s get into it.
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We got this question from Steven. Steven said this: Hi Noam. I very much enjoy your podcasts. It has been a very difficult year, as you have so eloquently articulated.
Some of the more troubling things to see are Jewish factions who are anti Israel – even to the level of meeting/marching with Muslim fundamentalists. I was hoping you might be able to explain the various reasons for this hateful opposition to the legitimacy of Israel amongst these religious and secular jews.
Thanks in advance, best wishes, Steven
Steven, I really appreciated this question. Not because it brought me joy, in fact, it made me pretty sad, actually, but i liked it because it gave me an opportunity to do something i try to do whenever I can: practice empathy. Put myself in another person’s shoes, and try to understand them, for real. Not to say, these guys are idiots, screw them. But really ask myself: there are, actually, plenty of Jews who proudly call themselves anti-Israel. So, here’s my tall order: in just a few minutes, I want to try to understand this phenomenon.
Can basically divide anti-Zionist Jews into two major camps. The first is “left-wing” Jews (in quotes), and the second is “ultra-Orthodox” Jews (also in quotes).
Let’s start with the left wing, which I think we can subdivide into two groups.. Group one is genuinely convinced by the arguments that Israel oppresses Palestinians. They’ve seen devastating news clips and they’re feeling complicit in something they really see as awful. I talked about this group in the Meta-Narratives episode we released in the weeks after 10/7 last year. I don’t see these people as evil. I’m actually going to play a clip from that episode here. [PLAY HERE]
I think they are misguided, guided only by one aspect of their Jewish identity, a universalist impulse, which is deeply holy and part of the Jewish story, but without a desire to understand and protect one’s own people, I think it is missing something.
And Group 2, which has a lot of overlap: left-wing Jews who want to “fit in” amongst their left wing peers, and distancing themselves from Israel is a way to do that. I actually had an episode where we talked about this in another podcast, Wondering Jews, which I co-host with the wonderful Mijal Bitton. In that episode, which was about the college encampments, we talked about how hard it is to be socially ostracized from the people you thought were your friends, and how easy it is to feign certainty in an attempt to be kept in the group. And I actually think my co-host, Mijal, said it perfectly. [PLAY HERE]
What I find so fascinating is that fitting in is the opposite of belonging. And I disagree with these groups who reject Israel, but I want to engage with them, learn with them, think with them, not throw them out. I just want to say to these people, and I hope many of them are listening – forget indoctrination, on any side. Forget it. Choose education. Read the books. Listen to the podcasts. Learn Jewish history broadly; engage in the Jewish story broadly; Speak to people on all sides, including Israelis and Palestinians of all stripes. Just try to learn, with an open mind.
And now, the second camp, ultra-Orthodox Jews, who are anti-Israel is a completely different way than their left-wing Jewish brothers and sisters. And their basic argument would come down to religion. And again, there are two reasons for this:
But before that, a story – story time! I was once at an Israeli day parade rally when I was probably 21 or something and there was a girl I was flirting with a lot.. So we’re strolling down 5th avenue, and these neturei karta folks – check out our Unpacked YT channel for more on them – they were yelling nasty things about Israel…and I just unleashed on them, cursed, probably made fun of their moms, bad stuff, not a good look, but this 19 year old girl thought I was the kind of crazy she liked, and she ended up marrying me…and so it all turned out well for me!
But, I’m digressing. Anyway, it’s kind of like this.
For the ultra-Orthodox, for the Haredi world, who is 99% of the time not neturei karta, who are actually just extremists, garbed in ostensibly Jewish clothing, Zionism, at least political Zionism, is basically a secular movement packed with non-Jewish influences. It lacks key features like Mashiach, the Messiah, and the rebuilt Temple. European Zionism in the 1800s was actually born amidst a culture clash between enlightened, secular Jews and traditional, religious Jews. In the European, Ashkenazi world, the religious were often horrified that secular Jews would violate Torah in the place where mitzvot, the Torah commandments count the most – Eretz Yisrael, the land of Israel. And a lot of that suspicious and alienation has stuck with the Haredi Jewish communities of Israel.
The second reason is even more explicitly religious, almost theological. The Talmud, one of our ancient Jewish texts, in the Tractate Ketubot, page 111a, shares a rabbinic story of three oaths that God makes. The first is that Israel would not “go up like a wall” [i.e. conquer Eretz Yisrael by massive force]. The second is that God made Israel swear that they would not rebel against the nations of the world [i.e. they would obey the governments in exile]. And third, God made the non-Jews swear not to oppress Israel “too much.” (Again, “too much” is in quotes, it’s a translation of the phrase yoter midai, but let’s go with it.)
Again, I cannot say this enough, I am oversimplifying, but I am saying something. Like I said, for years, I taught a whole semester’s class on the Haredi opposition to Zionism, and religious defenses for it. But the traditional Haredi understanding of this story of the three oaths goes something like this: these oaths are binding upon the people of Israel, and therefore, goes the argument, the Jewish people are commanded not to control the land of Israel unless God miraculously gives it over. So the fact that Israel holds political sovereignty of the land makes it treif, meaning not kosher, in their eyes. The Satmar Hasidim are probably the most famous example of this. The Satmar are anti-Zionist, they don’t love the concept of the state of Israel. They believe that Jews are required to wait for the Messiah before they return to the Holy Land. Again, this is a major generalization, but I’m just trying to answer Steve’s question in an empathetic and honest way.
By the way, I should add, though the Haredi community still doesn’t consider itself Zionistic, most Haredim today are probably more accurately classified as non-Zionist rather than anti-Zionist. It’s actually fascinating, what’s happened over the years is that many young Haredim in Israel are nationalistic in many ways but won’t identify as Zionist. But the Haredim feel attached to the Jewish people, to doing so much goodness and kindness for the Jewish people, so things are not that simple…unless it’s the neturei karta, and then I’m kinda like, get outta here. My empathy has lines…
So, Steve, I hope that helps answer your question. Again, would love to do a full episode on this one day. Stay tuned!
And now, let’s get to the next question.
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This question came from Amir. Amir shared this with us – let’s play it: I just listened to the episode on Iran’s surprise attack. As always, it was great. But there’s a part of the history between Iran and Israel that popped up in my mind and made me scratch my head. Didn’t Israel help the US transfer weapons to Iran during the Iran Iraq War? I’d love to hear more about Israel’s role in the Iran Contra Scandal. Never really understood it as I was just a kid when it happened.
Amir – I’m right with you buddy. I was literally a baby during the Iran Contra Affair. And I definitely want to do a full episode on this, because the relationship between Israel and Iran is a wild one. But again, let’s see what we can do in only a few minutes.
As I talked about in the Hezbollah episode, Israel and Iran had a pretty cozy relationship before the Iranian revolution of 1979. We’re talking a significant Israeli expat community and daily flights between Tehran and Tel Aviv. Wild, right?
If you want to know more about the Iranian revolution, check out our Hezbollah episode. But for our purposes, you have to know that after the Revolution, everything changed, and Israel and Iran have had a fairly bad relationship since then. I’m recording this now in November 2024, and in the last month, Israel and Iran have traded missiles, not to mention Iran has been funding Hamas and Hezbollah for decades. Not great stuff.
But, Amir, you asked about the Iran Contra Affair. So let’s get into that, because it’s actually bonkers.
In 1980, when Iran-Iraq War broke out. Saddam Hussein’s Iraq invaded Iran, aiming to seize Iranian oil fields and prevent the spread of Iran’s Islamic Revolution. Israel viewed Iraq as a primary threat, as Iraq had openly called for the destruction of Israel and was a significant military power in the region. So because Iraq was the bigger threat, secretly, Israel began to kind of work with Iran.
Geez, feels like Israel is that kid begging its neighbors to just be friends!
During the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988), Israel engaged in secret arms sales and military instruction(!) to Iran, despite Iran’s official stance of hostility towards Israel. Israel’s actions violated U.S. policy, which stated that no arms be sent to Iran until the release of American hostages at the U.S. embassy in Tehran.
In 1985, the arms trade took on a new layer when the United States became involved in the infamous “Iran-Contra Affair.” Now, you might have heard of this, but be real – if you’re like 95% of people under the age of 40, you’re like, I have no idea what it is. Check that, 99%. So let me tell you. The Iran Contra Affair involved covert U.S. arms sales to Iran (against official US policy) facilitated in part by Israel, in an attempt to secure the release of American hostages held by Hezbollah in Lebanon and to fund Contra rebels fighting the socialist government in Nicaragua. Whew. Mouthful right? But basically, Israel, among others, helped the US illegally sell arms to Iran.
Soooo…why? Great question, thanks for asking. Here are a few reasons, and again, this is so much, we really may need to do a full episode about this. But here are the reasons:
Number 1: The Common Enemy (Iraq): Israel saw Iran as a counterbalance to Iraq, which posed a significant threat to Israeli security due to its military buildup and frequent threats toward Israel.
Number 2: You scratch my back, I scratch yours. Remember the Osirak reactor? We have an episode about it, link in the show notes but basically, in 1981, Israel launched a surprise attack on Iraq’s Osirak nuclear reactor. And Iranian intelligence had helped Israel make that happen.
Number 3: Israel had lost the relationship with Iran with the overthrow of the shah in 1979. But with participation in the Iran Contra Affair, Israel hoped to win the favor of quote-unquote “moderates” in the Iranian regime who would potentially take power after Ayatollah Khomeini’s death and steer Iran toward better relations with Israel.
Number 4: This is a simple one: Israel needed more business. Specifically, business for the Israeli weapons industry. And Iran was a willing customer.
And Number 5: Israel and the larger Jewish community was trying to help Persian Jews who wanted to immigrate from Iran to the United States or Israel. And cooperating with Iran was a good way to make that happen.
So Amir, hope this was helpful. Israel and Iran did work together in the Iran Contra Affair. Pretty interesting story, right?
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Next question! This came from Sarah. Sarah asked a question I think many of us relate to, and there’s noooo way we’ll be able to do this one justice. But let’s try. This is Sarah’s question: I would like to ask the question everyone asks and no one answers fully:
How did the army/ Israel not know what was coming on oct 7th and why did it take so long for them to arrive at the scenes? This question haunts me at night….
Thank you
AKA: How did Israel not predict 10/7, and how did they react so poorly?
Okay, this question is kind of impossible, Sarah. But, I want to give a warning. Please don’t just jump into conspiracy theory land.
Before 10/7 or 7/10, people became obsessed with 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Here is what people do, when they’ve fallen down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. They will give you reasons, sure. Bad reasons grounded in poor evidence which has been refuted.
The danger of conspiracy theories is that THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE EVIDENCE THAT UNDERMINES THEIR THEORIES.
We’re all on a spectrum of having certain irrational beliefs, but conspiracy theorists believe in their theory in the face of clear evidence. That’s what makes it so dangerous.
People who believe conspiracy theories are not necessarily crazy. People who are not crazy can think crazy things.
Why do they believe irrational things? Mental illness? Paranoia? Narcissism?
Cass Sunstein – informationally isolated. Crippled epistemology.
But, what’s puzzling is someone who lives in London or New York, who has access to information.
I think for a lot of us, there is a lack of information, and because we struggle with living in a world we cannot explain, we give reasons to allow us to sleep better. Oh, there is dissonance? Well, Bibi must have wanted it. I will politely ask my audience to aim higher.
The truth is that from a practical perspective, there still hasn’t been a military inquiry. Over a year after the 10/7 attack, Israel is still waiting for an official state inquiry of what went wrong leading up to 10/7, and on the day itself. And many Israelis are pretty angry about this.
But I’ll give it a shot, because we do know some things. Here’s what we do know:
Number 1: The Conceptzia. If you’re a regular listener, you’ve heard the term the “conceptzia” before. Rewind back to 1973, the Yom Kippur War, when Egypt and Syria launched a surprise attack on Israel on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year. The postwar Agranat Commission of Inquiry investigated not just the operational surprise but the conceptual failure, which became known as the “conceptzia”: which was the governing assumption, or maybe arrogance, that convinced key Israeli military figures that Egypt, unable to engage in the necessary deep penetration bombing of Israel, would not start a war it could not win. Almost 50 years on to the day, Israel made serious conceptual mistakes in the lead up to the Hamas attack. Like a Conceptzia, Part 2. People just didn’t believe Hamas could pull something like this off.
Number 2: It’s hard to say, but the Israeli government indirectly propped up Hamas’ rule in Gaza, in several ways. First, Netanyahu allowed Qatari money (suitcases full of cash) to flow into Gaza, on the mistaken understanding that money and power would moderate Hamas leaders to focus on their lives. He and other Israeli political leaders were also convinced that a strong Hamas meant the Palestinian leadership was divided, which reduced pressure on Israel for a two state solution.
Number 3: Israel’s reliance on technology. After all of Hamas’ tunnel digging in the 2010’s, the Israeli government invested billions in building an underground wall between Israel and Gaza, which went as deep as 160 feet in some places. Combined with an electronic fence and sophisticated technological equipment, the government basically got cocky, and decided that the border was impenetrable. Soldiers guarding the border were redeployed to other areas, like the West Bank. In fact, Amir Tibon, a Haaretz reporter and survivor of October 7, wrote that on Oct 7, 2023, there were 25 battalions in the West Bank and under four – fewer than six hundred soldiers – along the Gaza border.
And Number 4: Missed intelligence. This is another tragic one. More than a year before 10/7, Israeli officials obtained Hamas’ battle plan. I’ll say it again – more than a year before 10/7, Israeli officials obtained Hamas’ battle plan. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational. They just thought Hamas couldn’t really pull it off. And then, in July, just three months before the attacks, a veteran analyst with Unit 8200, Israel’s signals intelligence agency, warned that Hamas had conducted an intense, daylong training exercise that appeared similar to what was outlined in the blueprint. But the same thing happened. A colonel in the Gaza division brushed off her concerns. And, as we talked about in the 10/7 episode, we had the tatzpitaniyot, the young female surveillance soldiers tasked with watching the Gaza border. Just weeks before the brutal Hamas massacre on October 7, they attempted to make the same warnings, and were brushed off by their senior commanders. Do you see the pattern? Cockiness. Ignoring people quote-unquote below you.
It’s awful, and depressing. But I do also need to highlight that while the military was slow, some heroes reacted incredibly quickly. There were soldiers, and even retired soldiers, like Amir Tibon’s father, who moved through hell and high water to get to the front line, to defend their people. Those people are heroes.
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This next question comes from Statia (and by the way Statia, I hope it’s ok to say, I love your name…if I have another kid, Staysha shall be in the name). Anyway, Statia asked:
Why did Trump move the capital of Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem? How did he even have that authority? What were the implications for Israelis?
So I want to start with an important clarification – Trump didn’t move the capital, he moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. But I get the question – so let’s get into the history.
First, this is probably obvious, but Jerusalem is prettttty, pretty important to the Jewish people. Like, duh. Like, go back to 1000 BCE – King David originally established Jerusalem as the capital of the Israelite kingdom. Then David’s son Solomon built the first holy temple there. After it was destroyed more than 400 years later, the Second Temple was subsequently rebuilt, standing for another 400 plus years in the same location.
After the Romans destroyed the Second Temple, in 70 CE, They exiled the Jews, but the longing to return to Jerusalem was constantly in their hearts and on their lips. Jews pray towards Jerusalem, we sing songs about Jerusalem, we say over and over, next year in Jerusalem!
And in 1947, when the UN offered the Partition plan, Israel wasn’t offered Jerusalem, which was heartbreaking to many Zionists. Jerusalem and its surrounding area was officially designated as a Corpus Seperatum, which meant that Jerusalem, considered holy to Jews, Muslims, and Christians, would have no sovereign affiliation to the proposed Jewish or Arab states. According to the UN resolution, residents would automatically become citizens of the city of Jerusalem, unless they would opt for citizenship of either the Jewish or Arab state. Although the Jews felt that any Jewish state should implicitly include Jerusalem, they accepted these terms, while the Arabs rejected the entirety of the partition plans outright.
You know what happened next. Arabs attacked, Israel survived, but Jerusalem ended up in Jordanian hands, where no Jews of any citizenship were allowed to visit. And then, almost 20 years later, in June 1967, everything changed after Israel’s victory in the six day war. A United Jerusalem was now under Jewish rule for the first time since the Romans conquered it in 70 CE. This was a major game changer for the Jewish people. And as Israeli soldiers set their flag high above their beloved Western Wall, they felt as though they were joining the Pantheon of Jewish Heroes, King David who conquered Jerusalem and turned it into his capital. Judah the Macabee who purified the temple after its desecration by the Greeks, and Bar Kokhba, who threw himself against the might of Rome in desperate battles for Zion and Jerusalem. Jerusalem was back in Jewish hands and their capital was once again unified.
So what changed? Well, some small things. For one, Israel headquartered its parliament and government offices in Jerusalem. And in 1980, Israel passed Basic Law, which is kind of equivalent to its Constitution: that quote, “Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel.”
However, the UN wasn’t impressed. Corpus Seperatum remained the official UN position. The UN condemned the basic law in Resolution 478, and has declared in numerous resolutions that changing the status of Jerusalem was illegal and therefore meaningless and has no validity. (Ah, the UN, you and Israel can use some couples therapy; I got a guy.)
For the most part, the US and nearly all other Western countries placed their embassies in Tel Aviv to avoid conflict with the Arab countries and keep up a neutral stance without taking sides on final status issues.
On October 23, 1995, Congress, under Bill Clinton, passed the Advisory Jerusalem Embassy Act stating that Jerusalem should be recognized as the capital of the state of Israel and the United States Embassy in Israel should be established in Jerusalem. Their argument was pretty simple. Each country could designate its own capital. Jerusalem is where Israel’s president is. Where Israel’s Parliament and Supreme Court function. It also recognized that since 1967, Israel gave all religions full access to holy sites within the city, and acknowledged that Jerusalem was the spiritual center of Judaism. Becoming law in November of 1995, this Act said that the relocation of the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem should be implemented no later than May 31, 1999. So what happened?
The Jerusalem Embassy Act contained a loophole, allowing the presidential delay of the embassy move for six months in order to protect national security interests, and every president since 1995 signed the waiver every six months, each time stating that it was necessary to protect the national security interests of the United States. According to US Ambassador to Israel Daniel Shapiro, it was to avoid igniting perhaps the most sensitive issue in the conflict.
No sitting president ever pulled the trigger – until President Trump. In 2017, he announced that Jerusalem would finally be home to a US Embassy. Upon the announcement of the planned move, Trump echoed the sentiments of the 1995 Act. He said, it is time to officially… to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. There’s nothing more or less than a recognition of reality. It is also the right thing to do. It’s something that has to be done. Embassy offices were established in Jerusalem as of May 2018 to coincide with Israel’s 70th birthday.
I remember how people said there would be an immediate violent reaction to it. But…that did not happen.
So that’s the story of the Embassy move. And let me just say this. It’s clear that Israel and its people are appreciative of the show of friendship from the US and from President Trump. But it doesnt change the fact that for Israel, Jerusalem was always the capital. Whether any other presidents or governments recognized it or not.
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And with that, let’s get to our last question. This is from Rafi. Rafi asked: Who are the moderate, peace seeking voices in the Palestinian/Muslim community today that we can elevate? Who can Israelis and diaspora Jews be bridge building with now?
Why does it seem like the only voices coming out of the ceasefire movement in the West are those that actively support Hamas and the destruction of Israel, and not those seeking a peaceful 2 state solution? The anti Vietnam protests were not explicitly pro Viet Cong, they were not calling for the destruction of America, and were anti war at their core. Conversely, the messaging from these protests today are overtly and explicitly pro war, calling for a violent end to the state of Israel with chants such as “from the river to the sea” and “resistance by any means necessary” and advocating globalizing attacks on diaspora Jewish communities with “globalize the intifada”.
AKA: Who are the moderate Palestinian/Muslim voices, and is there a moderate Palestinian movement that we just don’t hear about?
Now, Rafi, this is a hard question, just like all the others. And I’ll say it again – listeners, keep em coming. We love the hard questions.
Let’s start with saying that it’s important to consider who we are dealing with. There are different types of Palestinian experiences. There are Israeli Arab citizens of Israel. Gazan Palestinians Hamas controlled territory. West Bank Palestinians. Palestinians who are governed by the PA Israeli military control. Palestinians outside Israel/Palestinian territory, like in America or Europe. And these groups are all massive, and diverse.
And yes, it’s true, there does seem to be a depressing lack of moderation, at least amongst most Palestinian leaders. Consider the “pay to slay,” the program that gives a monthly allowance to the family of terrorists. We also have senior Fatah officials who have justified October 7 as defensive war. And let’s be honest – even some so-called “moderates” are tough to swallow. Marwan Barghouti is considered by many to be a “moderate,” and argue he is best placed to assume Gaza leadership from Hamas. Yet Hamas is calling for his release from Israeli prison. And, oh, why is he there? Barghouti is serving five life sentences for his part in planning three terror attacks that killed five Israelis during the Second Intifada. Soooo…moderate is a weird word for the guy.
But there are moderate voices, and I want to highlight some of them.
First: Mansour Abbas, a Palestinian Member of the Knesset, Israel’s Parliament. Abbas is an Islamist, a religious Muslim, who believes in working with Israel for the betterment of Arab Israelis. He believes that it is his mandate to work with the Jewish state, not against its existence. (Note: This DOES NOT MEAN I AGREE WITH MUCH OF WHAT HE SAYS.)
He is currently the leader of the United Arab List and represents the party in the Knesset. In 2021, Abbas made history by becoming the first Israeli Arab political leader to join an Israeli governing coalition.
In recent election Raam won 5 seats in the Knesset, 193,916 votes, 4.07% of total vote. That’s a big deal!
And he’s said courageous things. In December 2021, Abbas said that Israel was born as a Jewish state and will remain so, provoking outrage from members of other Arab parties. To many people listening, you might ask, “So, you want a cookie for saying Israel should remain a Jewish state?” The answer is yes, it’s a big deal to go against many leaders in your community. And, on 10 February 2022 Abbas rejected Amnesty International’s charge that Israel is an apartheid state, saying of Israel: “I would not call it apartheid.”
Following the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, Abbas urged unity between Jews and Arabs in Israel. He explicitly condemned the October 7 attack. He said last year that, quote, “armed Palestinian factions need to stop using weapons and turn to a diplomatic project with the Palestinian Authority to strengthen the chances of a Palestinian state and announce an inclusive and permanent ceasefire to bring about peace and an end to” the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.
There are other grassroots voices to look at. Maybe you’ve heard of Roots, or Women Wage Peace, or Hand in Hand, or The Parents Circle – and I can go on and on and on. These groups bring together Palestians and Israels, leaders and civilians alike, to work together to find common ground and hopefully eventually bring peace to the region. Check out all of these groups, to be inspired, and to see real change.
And lastly, I want to call out some individuals. Like someone I recently interviewed, Samer Sinijlawi, a Palestinian activist and commentator. Samer believes in the power of empathy, and maintains that the best way to ensure security for Israelis and dignity for Palestinians after the war is for their respective leaders to become friends, real friends.
You may also know of Muhamed Dajani, who I’ve also been lucky enough to work with many times, and a person who I do not always see eye to eye with, but deeply admire. Dajani was born in 1946 to one of Jerusalem’s historic Arab families. His parents were educated, secular Muslims. His family fled to Egypt when Israel declared its independence in 1948, but returned to the Old City of Jerusalem the following year (then under Jordanian rule). After years traveling America earning multiple PhDs, which, by the way, overachiever, Dajani returned to Jerusalem where his perspective of Israelis was challenged after seeing the medical treatment provided to his father and mother, respectively. Dajani joined the faculty of Al Quds University (Jerusalem) in 2001 but was forced to resign in 2014 after leading a group of Palestinian students to Auschwitz, the first trip of its kind. In 2007 Dajani founded Wasatia, a movement to promote moderate Islam and interfaith dialogue which he leads to this day.
There are more, and more, and more people like this. So I think Rafi was asking, not only, who are those people, but on a more basic level, do these people exist? Or are people who want peace, and cooperation, just shouting into a void? So Rafi, I’m here to tell you, it’s not a void. People are there. My friends are there. So don’t lose hope.
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And that’s all for this episode. Thank you all so much for joining us for our first ever Israel Open Mic. If you hated this, well, I’m really sorry. That’s a huge bummer. And if you liked it, well, great news, more are coming. And you can be a part of it! Send your questions and ideas to me, noam@jewishunpacked.com.
Unpacking Israeli History is a production of Unpacked, a division of OpenDor Media. Check out jewishunpacked.com for everything Unpacked-related, and one. more. time, write to me at noam@jewishunpacked.com.
This episode was produced by Rivky Stern. Our team for this episode includes the man, the myth, the legend, Hona Dodge, and Rob Pera. I’m your host, Noam Weissman. Thanks for listening, see you next week!